Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Barry Santini |
What i like about my frame reps:
1. They challenge me and my preconceptions about what will "sell." Even after 38 yeats of doing this, I recognize the need to challenge my *experience*
2. They contact me via email, and let me know right away about the release of new styles, the retirement of others, and any changes in business policies or promotions. I prefer this to tge "santa claus" effect, where the frame companies or reps feel tgey must "see" me in person to deliver the latest info.
Like Santa, no one can visit all tgeir accounts in one day.
3. They help me out by finding b/o'd skus that i need for Rxs.
What i don't like:
1. They get "mad" when i stretch out or twist a new style, much the same way clients do, and it breaks in front of our eyes. My motto: Better to know now than later.
2. When they say "everyone else is taking this style" ( I hate when they try to push the *insecurity switch*.
3. When they respond to one of my criticisms about fit or design with "You're the only one who says that".
Overall, they are on asset to be valued, especially the good ones (most are). Without them, I'm simply reduced to playing on the same field level as my clients, and could just as simply "order over the internet".
Silly me: I though we were in the business of reducing *blindness* |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Wendy Salle |
I feel fortunate that for the most part my reps are great. I ditch the bad ones fairly quickly. Business can be difficult enough today without having to deal with poor service. I think it goes beyond the rep though. Don't do business with a company that does not support the rep. I have had great reps over the years who's "promises" are not kept or delivered because the company does not stand behind them, they are only as good as the person making the ultimate decisions.
My pet peeve? Cold calling. Please be respectful of my time and schedule, even though you promise you have the next best thing since sliced bread!
To reps out there...I agree with Brad; be my partner, if I sell your product we both make a living but if I decide it's not right for my store, don't take it personally, it's my business decision. |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Paige Buscema |
Sales reps are no different than any other sales person including myself. The big difference in their world is that they have to go out to get business where we Opticians work to bring the clients to us.
A good sales rep will follow up with you after your order is shipped to make sure everything went as planned.
A good sales rep will go the extra mile to get you the answer you are seeking and will go even further to make sure you get any perks or split billing you should be entitled to as a good established account.
A good sales rep does not push but rather informs and a good sales rep actually likes the product they are selling.
It is important to remember when you are the client to expect the same high level of service that you yourself work hard to provide. This does not however give you license to abuse your sales reps. This is about building relationships and keeping them healthy on both sides of the table.
If a sales rep is pushy, lies, pads and order, does not follow up routinely, talks bad about the company they rep for, or exhibits poor interpersonal skills you DO NOT NEED THEM. It is your right to say no thank you and find another company to fill that niche for your frame boards. And believe me... there are plenty of companies to choose from that will REALLY want your business.
Paige Buscema
Eyetopia, Inc
Leesburg, VA - Washington, D.C. |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Stewart Gooderman |
There's a symbiotic relationship here. I good line will enhance any rep. A poor line will detract even from a good rep. I've actually told some reps who I really like to look for another line, they are not going to make any money with the line they have (and I'm usually right.)
I agree with the previous two writers but I'll add more: I will have nothing to do with reps that act unprofessional. And I'll refuse to deal with them even if they change companies. I've told a company, "If I have to deal only with an in house rep I will, but the person representing your company will not be allowed in my office. Period." |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By anne lopez |
i like to work "with" reps who will monitor their product. i expect them to remove discontinued products and things that are just sitting there not selling. it goes without saying that they should never pad orders.
i need to rely on their expertice when i do not like a product but it is a "new trend" and selling like crazy elsewhere.
i have banned reps from my shop who ignore my phone calls.
i don't mind cold calls if they only have one tray and they think it is something that would do well in my shop.
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Frame Sales Rep |
I would like to present another perspective. I am a frame sales rep and I read the article and the postings to date. I laughed at the title. A New Bill of Rights! I hope that you don't have reps that are oppressing you!!!!
I would like to present a idea about the kind of salesperson you are working with. This is a concept that Zig Zigler talks about in several of his motivational/sales books: There are two kinds of salespeople. The first sees a customer and feels like he/she is going to sell as much stuff as they can so that they can make as much money as possible. That really is the majority of salespeople....The second is the kind of person that honestly cares about your business. This person wants YOU to sell as much as possible. This person wants to help as many people as he/she can and once that has happened, then the money will show up.
I am a firm believer of the second of these theories. I do everything that I can control and I have built a respectible name for myself. I am not the greatest ever nor do I aspire to be. I just want to help as much as I can. After 5 years of this approach, I have a successful territory. But more importantly, 100 customers that I trust and that trust me. I would trust them with my children (if I had any) and vice versa.
One quick note, reps pad orders because customers aren't paying attention or because they do not respect the customer. I hear about this from customers all the time...and they keep buying from these unethical reps. The sad thing is that the reps like myself loose the board space to the guys that pad orders. In a perfect world, these unethical reps would be fired by the customer. Don't call the territory manager, just buy more from the nice trustworthy rep that is in your office every 8 weeks.
Best of luck to all of you! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Lisa Voss |
I have dealt with many reps, and most the time they are pretty good at monitoring their products, and have returned calls, or taken care of problems with their product. However i have also had a few that never seemed to want to go through the frame boards, or over stock, and i just let them know that it does need to be done, in order for us to do business with them, so we don't end up with alot of discontinued product, and keep up with the most recent styles for our patients.
I did have trouble with one company, and their rep i won't say their name, but we recieved several dollars in inventory that was not ordered, and the rep would not take it back, i also tried to call the company, and the manager ,and there as well we got the no care attitude, so the next time the rep came in i tried again to have them take the inventory back that wasn't ordered, and they still wouldn't, so i told them that they were not welcome with their line in the store, and that i would replace their line with one that i know would stand behind their product, and not try to pad the order, we did end up ending business with them, and every since then things have gone quite well in the office. I feel we have a right to not only watch out for the company, but our customers as well. |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Rusty Bowden |
You may not realize it, but the "great rep" you described, and the one those who have commented want to work with, works for Europa International. He/she is a member of the most professional frame sales team in the country.
In full disclosure, I am a member of the Europa sales team. We are extremely proud of our products and what we do to help the independent eye care practitioner.
We realize that every office is unique in its needs and take the time to work with each customer to find out what lines/styles will work best for that particular office. We work hard to develop long-term relationships that are mutually beneficial. We show up in person to service our customers, instead of making a phone call to get an order because gas prices have increased. We provide information on industry trends, new products, promotions, and merchandising and marketing suggestions. In fact, virtually every desired attribute that you and those who commented listed about a rep can be applied to every member of the Europa sales team.
Give us a call and let us prove it. |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Barry Santini |
I also like when reps "pull" discontinued product. And unless the styles are outright dogs, i simply pull them back, put a "sale" tag on them, and offer them for 50% off. Makes alot of folks happy to get a branded product at a discount, and removes any element of personal discretion from the process.
Surpringly to me, my clients now come in and ask to see the sale stuff first. I never mind, as the money tied up their is mine.
It's a triple win for everyone:
Me, i retrieve my money and more than an exchange
Vendor- they take back and have to process/ dispose of fewer skus ( many companies now offer financial incentives to keep low exchange rates)
Clients - they get a branded, known product at an attractive discount.
B |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Jeff Taylor |
1. You don't have a right to a sale just because you show up. Don't act hurt.
2. Don't show up at lunch.
3. Don't show up at closing time.
4. I know you do it, but don't let me find out you've compared notes with other reps.
5. If I call you looking for something customer service can't help me with, don't use it as an opportunity for a bigger sale.
6. If you really know who's about to walk in my door and what they're going to want, put your psychic powers to better use.
7. Don't waste your breath on these comments: Nobody ever complained about that before. I'll pass that along.
8. Here's what I really don't want to hear - what I should be selling.
9. Understand that I am not the end user of your product. After I buy it from you, I have to find a way to make it useful to somebody else.
10. I don't control my sale. I present products to my customers as accurately as possible. They decide. This isn't professional sports where the customer is blamed for poor sales.
11. Do not discuss pricing in my office unless I ask you to. If you do it in front of customers, I'll find a way not to buy from you even if you're selling something I need.
12. If I have not invited you to my home on numerous occasions, we are not close personal friends. Let's be professional and cordial.
PS - I only carry a few lines but my reps rock. Real pros all the way. I couldn't do it without you ladies and gentlemen. |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Betsy |
| My LEAST favorite rep used to represents a very popular, yet conservative men's line that fit in perfectly here (in small doses),and the Suns were AWESOME! Somehow, he was stripped of that line and given an even MORE popular line... BUT, He Loves to tell Dirty Jokes, and un-funny Jokes. I've flat-out told him I'm not a "joke person" & that I DO NOT like Dirty Jokes, yet he continues. He's a little older, so I somehow feel sorry for him - like he's going to get kicked out by the young bucks out there. Maybe, plus his great line, that's why I put up with him. My next LEAST favorite rep also reps a very hot line, but I would happily do without it if I never had to see her face again! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By James |
| I think that we all need to remember that we are the ones in control of a rep's visit and whether or not we buy any product from them. Personally I think my reps rock. I have a very good relationship with them and it shows up in the end results-- SALES! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By kim bowen, optician |
I am, and forever will be, an outspoken and progressive optician.
I choose to do business with savvy, talented sales reps from reputable companies who view our relationship as a PARTNERSHIP.
I've been fortunate to develop good relationships with them and have weeded out those who fall short, If I can't trust them, then I don't do business with them.
I schedule my reps in late December for the upcoming year and plan my budget accordingly so my reps time will not be wasted on a "lost call."
I don't take "cold calls."
I will supplement with online orders if my boards need restocking between scheduled vendor appointments.
I am responsible for the dispensary, so I am in control of the dispensary--not my reps.
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Frame Sales Rep |
I consider myself a successful frame rep with over 25 years selling for only 3 companies.
I take offense to some of the comments from egotistical opticians who have no respect for the work we reps do.
Yes we take an hour while your significant other chooses a "personal frame" that we eventually see on your board
Yes, we deal with the inconsiderate who leave you a message 30 minutes before your appointment that they are cancelling..After we have driven 50-100 miles to see them
Yes we deal with the breakages..its always the frames fault, never the person who worked on the frame
Yes we deal with the 25%-30% return rates..Try that in any other industry. Frame buyers...umph..lets call them frame "tryers"..Sure the rep will take it back if it doesn't sell
Yes we deal with all kinds
but mainly we deal with respectable business people who have an idea what its like being a road warrior and Respect US!
I don't beg for orders, I return all calls and I RESPECTTHE CUSTOMERS WHO RESPECT ME
So MR CHILDs..remember where you came from and who helped you become successful...because if you don't remember I DO |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Another frame rep |
| May I say "AMEN!!!" to the last comment! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Brad Childs |
I, of course, respect the sales force that is out there, that is not what the column was about, What I don't like are reps that do not come to town, train new staff, provide excellent service and do the occasional trunk show. It is not a matter of forgetting where I came from, it is a matter of, that ungrateful and entitled rep. If you are successful after 25 years then why would you believe that I am speaking of you. Remember you are successful. 25-30% returns, sorry to hear that as well, have you thought about representing a line that sells, or doesn't fall apart after six months wear, your returns would surely go down,
I do agree with frame tryers, and that most comps end up on the board, I also do feel like you should never be blown off for a scheduled appointment. some things I agree, some I don't, but remember this, we are an 8 soon to be 10 store chain and that does require more than the drive 100 miles spend a few hours and drive home same day.
Lastly, I enjoy the fact that you hide behind the name frame sales rep, you know who I am and where to find me, and I am always available for a conversation or a healthy debate, feel free to do so at any time |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Frame rep |
I would totally agree that there are many reps who are not very good. Being a regional manager for many years, I have dealt with all kinds and have seen it all. However I have also seen the other side..i.e optical retail establishments, O.D's etc who have no idea of what they are doing.
Taking advantage of the sales rep seems to be there specialty, and for those sales reps who deal with this every day are the ones I speak for.
I could go on with many stories, the accounts who take up your time, place an order and then you have to chase them for payment. Of course by the time you get them to pay, your company has charged back the commission from you..
Selling better lines does not guarantee abuse by the customer. If you would see some of the "crap" handed back to me for return you would not believe it!!!
I have learned a frame is a frame is a frame. Yes the fancy dancy lines which I have carried break too!! The fancy dancies still have to be assembled by yoiur staff...Return rates just as high on expensive frames..Why because the high end guy thinks he deserves more care than the guy who buys the lesser expensive lines!!
One last comment....training your staff. Yes I make commissions from selling your stores, I provide excellent service, return all calls, help educate some of your dummies about our frames, and do what I can to help you be successful..I am not your EMPLOYEE and it is your responsibility to educate your staff.. I will not kiss your butt because you have 10 stores...Remember when you had 1....I treated you the same way but as we become more successful and have more riches, we think our stuff doesn't smell..Sound familiar
And no I wont give my name....I am one of the successful reps !!!!
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Al Cappara |
| There are many top notch reps out there, and I found in my career as an engaged Optician, both in business and technically, if treated with professional respect, reps can really help you achieve the success you desire. I agree when a rep is there just to take an order, but, make your decision to deal or not, but most of us in this field can tell. I also know, their respective manufacturers are very demanding and without mercy! My experience has shown me how many reps take it on the chin to help their accounts, even at their own expense. The reps I deal with are the best! So, in closing, if you know what you're doing and looking for in attaining a successful result in your showroom and overall business, you won't fall prey!! |
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One more thin about reps...
By Barry Santinj |
| For me, and overall, they're secondary... It's product first! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Frame rep |
If we had to deal with nothing bu the Barry Santini's of the world, there would be no reps. Big Ego should be Barry's middle name.
Another guy who forgets where he came from and treats reps like c#@p. No wonder few of them call on him any longer. Talk about lack of respect!!! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Frame Sales Rep, The one that made the first posti |
I am unsure why but after I made my first posting another rep used the name "Frame Sales Rep." To clarify, I posted that I was previously an optician and that I believe that there are points on both sides being made. I would like to add a few other things.
First, as a wholesaler we have opportunity to fire customers. My boss now and of the previous company I represented, has not ever told me that I will deal with any nonsense from a customer that I didn't wasn't willing to. So all reps should stop complaining about customers treating them bad and have an adult conversation. Tell the customer that you are unhappy and that you would like to do business another way. If they say no, then either do the business and be quiet or walk away. Complaining about it gives you a bad reputation and makes you seem childish, particularly given the percection that our customers have of our job.
Second, I think that the Europa plug was shameless and unethical. I didn't use my name because I didn't want to seem like I was trying to "score points" in the industry. This is a forum for conversation relating to our industry. We are meant to learn from each other and have constructive conversation NOT advertise. And by the way, I HIGHLY doubt that ALL the Europa reps are that fantastic. If so, let me know if they need a manager. That has to be the easiest gig around!!!
Finally, I agree with Mr Childs. As a rep and as an optician. I think that he used strong langauge and maybe questionable judgement in the title....I still think that is funny...but the article is fair. I would add, that honesty with your reps will go a long way. If been told that I was being dropped in offices in a simple conversation. I realize that the removal of my line today is a "no" but to me it is always a no "for now". I will work to earn them back, and 9 out of 10 times I do.
Best of luck and lets play nice |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By CA402CE4-1A39-4464-B412-0E07DF2281E6 |
| Barry Santini is a trusted and respected optical professional. He is also a powerful and creative writer contributing to the editorial of 2020 Magazine. As Editor in Chief I gave him the option of editing the response specifically addressing his professionalism. Santini opted to keep the dialog going hoping the topic could continue opening discussions without resorting to personal attacks. I would hope that captures the spirit of this evolving topic. JJS, 2020 Ed in Chief |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Barry Santini |
Whoops!
It's always hard when the curtain is pulled back on one's past. Yeah, mea culpa. I was known to treat reps harshly...sometimes like a d***.
But most of the time, the ones whose sentiments are mirrored in "a frame rep" 's post just could wrap their minds around the idea that, despite their obsequiousness, I just didn't see their product fitting into my mix at that time.
Today, I continue to ask the tough questions, especially about product & product quality. And I'm also vocal about companies who policies and procedures smack of an self-serve tone.
Let's not let this dialogue degenerate into personal attacks. I believe the truth will out, whether or not a poster uses their real name, or not.
B |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Louis Fullagar |
I have been a high end sales rep for around 10 years and am not afraid to reveal who I am. I have been following this conversation and can definitely see that there are many valid points on both sides of this conversation. It would also be prudent of me to mention that I have serviced Brad's account in varying degrees over many years. I am also an optician and have owned and operated my own optical stores and other optical businesses.
It's funny actually....I was talking with another sales rep who is very successful and well respected and we agreed that being a "great" sales rep is really not THAT difficult. I'm sure that maybe some of these points may just be what Brad might be trying to convey....
1. Show Up - what a concept! I am totally blown away every week by stories about reps who fail to just "show up". Somehow I keep missing these jobs that require zero effort in seeing the accounts in the territory...
2. Stay In Contact - maintaining regular contact is really pretty easy these days with the advent of email, social networking, cell phones, etc. Of course harassing your customers is not desirable but with all these tools at your fingertips it should be a "no brainer" to maintain some kind of regular interaction...
3. Return Calls - another earth shattering concept! Again this is not difficult is it? Alas, I hear this all the time that crappy reps don't return calls at all. In fairness though, accounts should understand that reps are usually busy with appointments and will not always be able to return every call immediately.....you should at least expect some contact within 24 hours at the latest though.
Build Trust - just as opticians have to build trust with their customers, so too we sales reps need to build a relationship that is mutually beneficial with our accounts. Honesty, reliability, knowledge, respect and common sense are great attributes in a successful sales rep. Be prepared to assist, train, understand and work with your customers so that they, in turn, will work with your product....
These are 4 very simple ideas that we came up with in about 5 minutes. They are the very basic rules for building a successful client base. I would like to think that most reps out there are capable of managing these concepts.
Now, in the spirit of an even debate, accounts should understand that they have some responsibility in this relationship also. If you want "partners" then you must also treat your "great" reps with the respect you are asking them to give you....
We have all heard the "horror" stories about accounts that conveniently forget your appointment after a 100 mile drive, want to not pay their bill and just return everything for a credit, blame you when they can't seem to sell the product, want an "even exchange" every time and continually turn their staff at every visit.....for all you "great" store owners...Believe It!!!!
Just as there are "crappy" sales reps there are equally "crappy" accounts...most sales reps with half an idea what they are doing quickly cut these idiots off....you should do the same!
Many years ago, in a store I co-owned, we decided one day to ONLY work with sales reps that we enjoyed working with and had become "friends" with. We quickly worked out that our whole experience changed immediately....we carried less lines, got better service, better terms as we went deeper in collections, it was easier for our staff to understand fewer lines more thoroughly.....all the "hassles" of poor service vaporized immediately...
If you are working with sales reps you don't like or who service you poorly then dump them......it makes sense right! Then either pick up the phone, do your research, ask around and give one of us hard working and reputable reps a shot at your business....
You know there's still 2 things I don't understand in this whole debate....
1. Why are you giving money to people you don't like and do a poor job?
2. How do these people survive anyway? I pride myself at being as good as I can be...I always want to be better...it's my JOB and my REPUTATION at stake....
Lou
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By brad childs |
Lou, great points, I would like to address your last two paragraphs, or sentences.
my response to 1. I don't like to support those companines who I don't like or for that matter do a poor job. In the world of luxury exclusives, after years of building a brand, our top rep leaves for greener grass and then is replaced by an upstart who not only has no idea who we are, but no idea as to the history and the story of the very collection they are repping. So Lou I must ask in return, place yourself back into retail, build a line over a span of time, would you dump that line due to the rep. I am not saying I would or would not, I am asking what would you do? These questions are easy to shoot from the hip and make a rash decision, how will they impact you/us down the road.
Lastly, I could not agree more, don't take advantage of the rep as if they work for you, they don't. We as retailers make a pledge to purchase product then we as retailers should pay the bill when the bill is due. Reps should fire accounts just the same!
Well said mate |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Heather |
| I just have a few things, first I work for a doctor that does pay their bill. So that is not the problem, but some months the office has to pay more out due to taxes or end of year, most of our reps understand and do not mind just taking inventory. Although there are a few that are not very nice about it. We all have to make a living and respect eachother. Some of you have said just fire them, well not so easy. Do you send back the frames if you fire that rep? I can think of one or two reps that I know for a fact pad orders, can I just send back their entire line? Any advise would be great. |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Louis Fullagar |
You made a decision to buy the frames....of course you can't send them back. If you feel strongly about the situation then talk to the management of the company and see what they are prepared to do.
You can actually hurt them more by blowing out their product ON SALE and being rid of the poor rep and the poor service! There is no way I would continue to buy from a dishonest rep that would pad an order... |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By KHC Boutique Owner that loves all our reps! |
Collections come and go and reps come and go. Personally we follow the reps we enjoy. Sure the rep has some responsibility however, it is our store, our clients and our money. The owners need to take some responsibilitu for their choices. I am in the luxury eyewear world with the Maybach currently our top seller and yes i do expect more from Mark than our Oliver Peoples rep. There is a direct relationship between the price of the frame and our rep expectations.
I expect consistant communication and honesty. Please do not drive a 100+ miles to see me i can place my orders from a catalog i will see you at the show.
I choose my collections by the rep. I dont care if they have the hottest selling collection if i dont like you i dont want it. If you pad an order done it is over even if you are a fun person to hang with.
By the way Lou, You are in fact an excellent example of great rep.
The bottom line is everyone has to be responsible for ourselves. Reps are there to support their collection not buy you meals or give you frames. Like anything- they give what they get. Perhaps, if you dont like your reps they don't like you. Imagine one of your clients treating you the way you treat gyour reps!
Please excuse any typos this was sent from a wireless Device.
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By Louis Fullagar |
Brad, in answer to your question, I would probably wait a few months because if the rep is that bad then he most probably will have the same effect on other accounts and be replaced anyway...natural selection is a reliable thing for the most part. If not, and the company fail to see the issues, I would sell it down and hop off that train...
Great debate guys....
KHC...thanks!
Lou |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By J |
| Having been on both sides of these issues (a rep and an optician) the most important thing to remember is to respect one another and not to jump to conclusions. There have been way to many times where i have heard "well the last guy........". I am not the last guy! |
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Re: A New Bill of Rights
By sales rep |
What opticians, buyers and owners are not taking in to account when it comes to reps servicing their business is that almost all reps work on 100% commission only. No salary, no expense account, no company vehicle. All though a rep might make " a cool $1,500 " on one fill in order, they are spending money out of their own pockets every time they get in the car to come visit you.
I've been a rep for over 10 years now and have spent the last 4 years working in the ophthalmic industry, and after all of that time I've yet to really make good money. Most of us reps are just barely getting by. I currently work for one of the top "A" sun glass / rx frame manufactures in our industry and service 200+ doors in my territory averaging about 2 mil per year in sales. Every month I earn about $5k in commission. Sounds great right? Well you would be wrong. I spend an average of $2,000 a month on gas alone. Add another $800 for hotels and I'm left with $2,200. Then I have to pay for my office, utilities, internet, phone, fax, etc. I generally profit $1,200 a month or $15k a year. Try supporting a family on that type of income and you might have more respect for your reps. We work 14+ hour days driving an average of 250 miles per day. Just to show up to your appointment and HOPE to get a fill in order that might help us break even on the gas money we spent getting there.
So the next time you feel like your rep is not giving you the support you need try cutting the person some slack. Are you really being the best partner you can be to your rep or are you just being a good partner to the company they work for? |
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